Let's say our department provide service1 and service2. For Change Management, do we need a change management process for service1, and a change management process for service2? Or we just need one change management process for both services?
Thanks
Jirong
Do we need a set of processes for each service we provide?
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losthorizon
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I was hired to setup a Software Configuration Management (SCM) solution for the government, a department called Service Management Branch (SMB). Recently I just found out SMB's organization structure and business function model is an exact copy of ITIL v3 structure including "service strategy", etc.UKVIKING wrote:Jirong
Why would you do that having separate processes ?
So to me, they want to provide SCM as a service to the enterprise, and I am asked to develop some processes related to SCM. A very good example, or perfect coincident, in SCM, traditionally we have configuration management process, build and deploy process, change control process and release management process. They are used to support software development.
So now the questions are:
1. Are these traditional SCM processes same as these Configuration Management, Change Management processes in ITIL?
2. Today we are providing the SCM service, as service1, and I have my set of traditional SCM processes to support this SCM service. If tomorrow we want to provide infrastructure as service2, do we need a new set of processes to support service2? Because process for software development can be quite different from infrastructure setup.
Appreciate if you can clarify these concepts for me.
Thanks
Jirong
Why do you call SCM a service? Why would you call Infrastructure a service?
Don't answer that. Everything is a service. Everyone is a customer. It's a way of clouding real meaning.
The thing about IT service management is that it is there for real services to real customers. So, things like build and deploy, change control end release are there to support the live services, not the development. Development no longer rules the roost.
If you had two separate infrastructures running different kinds of services you might want different service management processes. Probably not if the same people were involved.
SCM is for managing the configuration of a software environment. IT service configuration management is for the configuration of an IT environment. When software enters a service environment it comes under the control of service management and leaves the control of software development.
Don't answer that. Everything is a service. Everyone is a customer. It's a way of clouding real meaning.
The thing about IT service management is that it is there for real services to real customers. So, things like build and deploy, change control end release are there to support the live services, not the development. Development no longer rules the roost.
If you had two separate infrastructures running different kinds of services you might want different service management processes. Probably not if the same people were involved.
SCM is for managing the configuration of a software environment. IT service configuration management is for the configuration of an IT environment. When software enters a service environment it comes under the control of service management and leaves the control of software development.
"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
William Penn 1644-1718
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losthorizon
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So you do mean ITIL is to support live application, which we call it production environment or operation.Diarmid wrote: The thing about IT service management is that it is there for real services to real customers. So, things like build and deploy, change control end release are there to support the live services, not the development. Development no longer rules the roost.
SCM is for managing the configuration of a software environment. IT service configuration management is for the configuration of an IT environment. When software enters a service environment it comes under the control of service management and leaves the control of software development.
That was my original understanding, but they don't agree with it:
https://itilcommunity.com/modules.php?na ... 8760#28760
If ITIL controls the production environment and the traditional SCM controls the development and QA environment, then I have no question.
Thanks
Jirong
Jitong
DO you have any certification or education in ITIL whether v1, v2, v3 or 2011 ?
ITIL does not control any thing.
IT Service Management is IT Service Management.
ITIL is just a tool / a set of best practices
IT Service Management is for the entire IT area.
There are parts which are for Production and there are parts for Project and development
You link to my explanation on how Software development links into IT Service Mgmt.... via Release Mgmt......
Frankly, I think you should walk away from this project if you dont have enough experience in IT SM implementing IT SM using ITIL... etc
DO you have any certification or education in ITIL whether v1, v2, v3 or 2011 ?
ITIL does not control any thing.
IT Service Management is IT Service Management.
ITIL is just a tool / a set of best practices
IT Service Management is for the entire IT area.
There are parts which are for Production and there are parts for Project and development
You link to my explanation on how Software development links into IT Service Mgmt.... via Release Mgmt......
Frankly, I think you should walk away from this project if you dont have enough experience in IT SM implementing IT SM using ITIL... etc
John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
Jitong
I admit what I posted and the last sentance was rather harsh.
I did not say uncalled for but.. harsh. I will explain
IT Service Management applies to the entire IT environmwent from the development side to the production / operational side.
There are processes in IT SM that are the core of Operations / Production
These are Incident, Problem and of course Change, Release and Configuration
Change is there to protect Production from IT or as some one put it
..Protect the business from the idiots in IT..
Change is there to approve work to be done in Production to improve the service being delivered to the business if you boil it down. The concept of the classification - Standard, etc and the concept of the CAB - to approve. - all revolve around that.
Release & Configuration on the other hand support Change and are the work horse for IT.
Release manages what is being 'built' - for lack of a better term. SCM falls under RM - why... because something is being built.
Release does not care how you develop, what language you use, whether you do SCRUM, AGILE or what ever. Release cares about... organized development, structure, source code /document mgmt - control / version etc (which is Configuration Mgmt to be frank). Release should say
If you want to take the solution out of development, you must have a implementation plan, solution package before you bring it to a QA/AT test environment. You also had to test this and prove this.
it is then up to the SCM people - with guidance from RM, CM, CfM - to come up with the standards. This may be a bit different for each application beign developed as each has its own idiosyncracies....
But the standards are defined broad enough by RM.
---------------------------------
In your situation,, the SCM provide a service - deployment releases for applications.. This has to be dealt with in the same way when they want to go to production. other wise you dont have good IT SM processes
I admit what I posted and the last sentance was rather harsh.
I did not say uncalled for but.. harsh. I will explain
IT Service Management applies to the entire IT environmwent from the development side to the production / operational side.
There are processes in IT SM that are the core of Operations / Production
These are Incident, Problem and of course Change, Release and Configuration
Change is there to protect Production from IT or as some one put it
..Protect the business from the idiots in IT..
Change is there to approve work to be done in Production to improve the service being delivered to the business if you boil it down. The concept of the classification - Standard, etc and the concept of the CAB - to approve. - all revolve around that.
Release & Configuration on the other hand support Change and are the work horse for IT.
Release manages what is being 'built' - for lack of a better term. SCM falls under RM - why... because something is being built.
Release does not care how you develop, what language you use, whether you do SCRUM, AGILE or what ever. Release cares about... organized development, structure, source code /document mgmt - control / version etc (which is Configuration Mgmt to be frank). Release should say
If you want to take the solution out of development, you must have a implementation plan, solution package before you bring it to a QA/AT test environment. You also had to test this and prove this.
it is then up to the SCM people - with guidance from RM, CM, CfM - to come up with the standards. This may be a bit different for each application beign developed as each has its own idiosyncracies....
But the standards are defined broad enough by RM.
---------------------------------
In your situation,, the SCM provide a service - deployment releases for applications.. This has to be dealt with in the same way when they want to go to production. other wise you dont have good IT SM processes
John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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losthorizon
- Itiler
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- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:00 pm
No worries, John, and I thank you for all your help.
As I said in my another post, I am a traditional SCM specialist, newbie to ITIL. Normally, SCM focus on the development, rather than production operation management. In SCM focus on:
1. Source code version control, part of ITIL's configuration management.
2. Change control of source code, in terms of change request, enhancement request, defects, it's the change requests started from the business requirement all the way down, not just production issue.
3. Source code build automation, deployment automation.
4. Release Management including all of above.
There are some mis-match to ITIL, e.g. Source code version control is at the core of traditional SCM, not sure about ITIL. ITIL CM has a CMDB to store everything, while SCM only has a source code version control repository and build artifacts binary repository, they serve different purposes.
I kind of feel it's an alignment thing. The SCM in a particular company can be aligned to CMMI standard, or ITIL standard, or some other standards. So if my company is ITIL based, then all the ITIL processes has to cover whatever a traditional SCM is required.
Jirong
As I said in my another post, I am a traditional SCM specialist, newbie to ITIL. Normally, SCM focus on the development, rather than production operation management. In SCM focus on:
1. Source code version control, part of ITIL's configuration management.
2. Change control of source code, in terms of change request, enhancement request, defects, it's the change requests started from the business requirement all the way down, not just production issue.
3. Source code build automation, deployment automation.
4. Release Management including all of above.
There are some mis-match to ITIL, e.g. Source code version control is at the core of traditional SCM, not sure about ITIL. ITIL CM has a CMDB to store everything, while SCM only has a source code version control repository and build artifacts binary repository, they serve different purposes.
I kind of feel it's an alignment thing. The SCM in a particular company can be aligned to CMMI standard, or ITIL standard, or some other standards. So if my company is ITIL based, then all the ITIL processes has to cover whatever a traditional SCM is required.
Jirong
ITIL is not a standard. It is a body of good practise for IT service management.
Properly speaking a company cannot be ITIL based. ITIL informs the service management processes; that does not lead to ITIL processes, but to IT service management processes which may have been influenced by ITIL.
Source code is not an integral part of the live environment (for example, with third party software, whether it is MS Word or a complete financial system, you don't have any source to control). But version control of the live code is always important.
Release into the live environment is an operational matter,. Even if development provide some of the tools and do much of the work they are doing it as an operational activity, not a development one.
The CMDB is not "for" change management; it is for many processes, notably including problem management and incident management. It embraces all aspects of the production environment the network, the servers, the PCs, the support staff, everything related to the services - not just software.
Properly speaking a company cannot be ITIL based. ITIL informs the service management processes; that does not lead to ITIL processes, but to IT service management processes which may have been influenced by ITIL.
Source code is not an integral part of the live environment (for example, with third party software, whether it is MS Word or a complete financial system, you don't have any source to control). But version control of the live code is always important.
Release into the live environment is an operational matter,. Even if development provide some of the tools and do much of the work they are doing it as an operational activity, not a development one.
The CMDB is not "for" change management; it is for many processes, notably including problem management and incident management. It embraces all aspects of the production environment the network, the servers, the PCs, the support staff, everything related to the services - not just software.
"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
William Penn 1644-1718
Jitong
I still think you are out of your depth here.
You are development( code management type) trying to apply your extremely limited knowledge of ITIL, IT Service Management and the core concept of what is a standard and what is better practice
Why are you - a code manager type - tryong to do Operational Change Management
It is a very different kettle of fish
Your area - software development takes up problem mgmt and change management as per the explanation I gave early... however that is only a part of PM and CM to be honest
and the philosphies behind Code mamgmt, project mgmt and operations change mgmt are comepltely different
You need some one who has experience in the operational side of IT rather than developmetn side - otherwise,.... it can get all screwed up
I still think you are out of your depth here.
You are development( code management type) trying to apply your extremely limited knowledge of ITIL, IT Service Management and the core concept of what is a standard and what is better practice
Why are you - a code manager type - tryong to do Operational Change Management
It is a very different kettle of fish
Your area - software development takes up problem mgmt and change management as per the explanation I gave early... however that is only a part of PM and CM to be honest
and the philosphies behind Code mamgmt, project mgmt and operations change mgmt are comepltely different
You need some one who has experience in the operational side of IT rather than developmetn side - otherwise,.... it can get all screwed up
John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
They can be changed easily if someone is really into changing them,Basically what i feel most of the times is what the gotta be learning and that is got much to do with our stuff.Scrum can bring a change in it .If a right chance is given to it.